Discussion List for campus-based and allied personnel working to end gender-based violence on campus.

[Angela DiNunzio Seguin <>]

  I don't think Marilyn's comments were contrary to
  what you are saying, Mike.  If you have sex with
  someone WITHOUT their consent, that is sexual
  assault.  If you do it while drunk, you are still
  responsible for your actions under the law.  You
  have violated a person and the law.
   
  I think generating healthy discussion about the
  stickier points of sexual behavior while intoxicated
  brings about a teachable moment.  We need college
  students to be thinking critically and speaking
  frankly about their actions and choices, and that
  includes people who say yes while drunk even though
  they wish they wouldn't.  We can bring into the
  discussion the other elements of the equation -
  effects of alcohol on men's bodies and women's
  bodies, effects of alcohol on judment,
  decision-making, & inhibition, circumstances that
  might make someone feel as though they cannot say
  "no" like intimidation, coercion, fear, size &
  strength of the other person, level of intoxication,
  blackout, not being aware of what's going on until
  it is too late, etc. 
   
  I wish it could be clear-cut all the time.  It would
  certainly make all of our lives easier! 
  Unfortunately these cases are rarely clear-cut and
  simple.  And personally, I am growing very weary of
  the alcohol factor impacting legal and judicial
  decisions, usually in favor of the perpetrators.  So
  I appreciate the discussion about ways to engage
  students in critical discussions of these issues.
   
  Angela

Angela DiNunzio Seguin
Program Coordinator
S.O.S. (Sexual Offense Support)
Wellspring: Student Wellness Program
University of Delaware
(302) 831-3457
http://www.udel.edu/wellspring


  Date: Thu 22 May 15:43:47 EDT 2008
  From: Michael Domitrz 
<>
  Add To Address Book
  Subject: Re: Drunk driving analogy
  To: "Kile, Marilyn J" 
<>
  Cc: 


When working with students, you may want to be very careful of using  
the approach of "When you choose to drink, you are still responsible  
for what you do" because many students will immediately respond with  
"Then how come a drunk person cannot give consent?  If I am  
responsible for what I do when I'm drunk, then my partner is too.  She  
is responsible for saying 'YES' to sex when she is drunk."

Mike Domitrz, CSP
The Date Safe Project
"Teaching Boundaries, Respect, & Sexual Assault Awareness for  
Teenagers & Young Adults."

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On May 22, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Kile, Marilyn J wrote:

Here are some ideas.

POSTER text:

Being drunk is NO EXCUSE for
hitting someone with your car;
hitting someone with your fists;
having sexual contact with someone without their consent.

When you choose to drink you are still responsible for what you do.

PRESENTATION text:

Let's say I go out drinking and then I hit someone with my car.  What if
I say to you, "It's not my fault. I was drunk.  I didn't know what I was
doing.  Do you know how hard it is to control a car when you've been
drinking?  I couldn't help it.  It's not my fault. Gees, I never would
have done it if I'd been sober. I'm not that kind of person."  What
would you say to that?  Well, it's the same thing if you sexually
assault someone when you've been drinking. You are responsible for your
actions.

Marilyn J. Kile, LCSW
Sexual Assault Prevention Coordinator
2022 Ambrose Health Center
University of Wisconsin-Whitewater
800 W. Main St.
Whitewater, WI  53190
www.uww.edu/sart
262-472-1300 X2244
FAX 262-472-1435