Subject: Scholarly discussion of the music of John Cage.
List archive
- From: Ed Crooks <>
- To: Rod Stasick <>, Silence <>
- Subject: [silence] Re: Aleatoric • Indeterminacy • Chance
- Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 17:11:46 +0000 (GMT)
- Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=KBORnV6Rqq2PVcoCXeEGpqDkVog6KmeWciFLDHa2ahykvJxh/riZGHIiEPKNvvEjg5IeG1bw1K30sKiWhjjklC22e1wTa7ouVHlNDjdXhcVBX+cUrZ2vQ6xHHhdmRwjCdmPILIzdWd/597FUiJXXH+rrkf9igoU2VR5+cufNsyA=;
Hi Rod,
I certainly side with you on this one!
On the question of the term "aleatory", there is this from For the Birds, pp.180-1 Cage: "In fact, Boulez in turn threw himself into chance operations. But for
him, chance served as a pretext for inventing the term ‘aleatory.’ I believe he
established its present musical definition. Well, he used that word only to
describe appropriate and correct chance operations, as opposed to those which
seemed to him inappropriate or incorrect – mine! In fact, his chance operations
fit into his compositions only as part of a drama. He very strictly
distinguishes between determinate passages and ‘aleatory’ passages in the same
composition. As a whole, it becomes a drama between opposites: determinate vs.
indeterminate.”
best,
Ed
www.edwardcrooks.com
From: Rod Stasick <>
To: Silence <>
Sent: Tuesday, 12 February 2013, 14:26
Subject: [silence] Aleatoric • Indeterminacy • Chance
Hello Silencers,
to deal with too much snow and cold.
I wanted to mention that I'm having an interesting...
ummmm...discussion with a guy online who has some
misguided ideas about Cage's ideas and work:
Ideas like:
• Cage was known for his use of "mathematical equations
to create his music..." and then
sites Joan's book "Musicage..."
as proof and tells me I need to read that...
(Yeah, and Ravi Shankar was known for his dancing.)
• "Cage 'invented' aleatoric music"
then when challenged says that he was the first to do so on record...
(out of curiosity, I wanted to check online which recording,
with year, was the first one released of John's music, but couldn't
find André's list {the site is down} and couldn't figure out how to
find this bit of information using the "Complete Works" page
at johncage.org. I must be aging faster than I realize - ha!
Does anyone know what the first release actually was?
but anyway,
as a result of this, I'm discovering a kind of blurring
of the
definitions of these three ideas:
• Aleatoric music
• Indeterminacy
• Chance
What I've long thought of as separate ideas
seems to be often thrown together (just recently?)
as all the same - all three supposedly having the same meaning
which, to me, has clearly never been the case.
I know that John disliked the term "aleatoric"
but my aging mind needs refreshing as to where I've actually read this.
Yes, there's Meyer-Eppler's Darmstadt introduction
of the process...and Boulez took to popularizing it,
but it would be nice to visit's John's words.
Anyway, I'm wondering if any of you have your own
comments about these three ideas and their interrelation.
thanks,
Rod
- [silence] musicians wanted, Derek Piotr, 02/11/2013
- [silence] Re: musicians wanted, Goldstein, Louis, 02/11/2013
- [silence] Aleatoric • Indeterminacy • Chanc e, Rod Stasick, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Aleatoric • Indeterminacy • Chance, Ed Crooks, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Aleatoric • Indeterminacy • C hance, Ben Judson, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Aleatoric • Indeterminacy • C hance, \\js, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Aleatoric • Indeterminacy • C hance, David P Miller, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Re: Aleatoric • Indeterminacy • Chance, Rod Stasick, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Re: Re: Aleatoric Indeterminacy
Chance, S.E.M. Ensemble, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Re: Aleatoric Indeterminacy Chance, Charles Turner, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Re: Re: Aleatoric Indeterminacy Chance, Petr Kotik, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Re: Re: Re: Aleatoric € Indeter minacy € Chance, Bill Trigg, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Aleatoric € Inde terminacy € Chance, Carl Heppenstall, 02/12/2013
- [silence] RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Aleatoric € Indeterminacy € Chance, Russell Goodwin, 02/13/2013
- [silence] Re: Re: Aleatoric Indeterminacy Chance, Charles Turner, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Re: Re: Aleatoric Indeterminacy
Chance, S.E.M. Ensemble, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Re: Aleatoric • Indeterminacy • Chance, Rod Stasick, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: Aleatoric • Indeterminacy • Chance, Ed Crooks, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Aleatoric • Indeterminacy • Chanc e, Rod Stasick, 02/12/2013
- [silence] Re: musicians wanted, Goldstein, Louis, 02/11/2013
Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.16.