Discussion List for campus-based and allied personnel working to end gender-based violence on campus.

[Amanda Childress <>]

I wasn't trying to address rape, I was looking at sexual battery. Where 
particularly men are taking advantage of women under the influence. By taking 
an intoxicated yes or coercing a woman who's not responding with a verbal que 
as a yes.

The lack of communication around sex has been socialized in both men and 
women 
for generations. So women are taught not to talk about sex or tell their 
partners what they want and men are socialized to make the first move and 
keep 
going if you fail, never give up, three strikes then your out. So, we 
(society, schools, mothers & fathers, grandparents, siblings, media, & peers) 
are socializing are men to act one way and women to another when it comes to 
matters of sex. 

Sex is a taboo topic and and no one is taught about how to talk about it. Now 
i realize their is a HUGE difference between sex and rape, that being 
consent; 
however, a lot of sexual assaults, particularly on college campuses start off 
as consensual sexual acts that turn into nonconsensual assaults. Particularly 
when alcohol is involved, atleast on our campus, and i'm only speaking from 
the assaults that i see on our campus. But they predominately involve 
acquaintences that are both intoxicated and intercourse occurs and one person 
feels taken advantage/violated after that. 

In these situations one person thought it was consensual and the other did 
not 
when sober. Now i know that we have many men who particularly look for the 
intoxicated women to go after, because they know she is 'more likely' to say 
yes to sexual activity if she's intoxicated. Most of our students know that 
Rape is wrong/bad but some of them, the ones that we hopefully can impact and 
change are the uneducated ones that don't get that 'taking advantage of 
someone in an intoxicated/vunerable state is the same.

We know that it's almost impossible to change a sociopath who goes around 
raping women, but can we impact these guys who are uneducated about getting 
consent and that an intoxicated yes is not a yes. 


Amanda Childress


Quoting Tom Schiff 
<>:

> I keep agreeing with Juliette. The numbers don't bear out it being a
> > simple matter of mis-communication. There are plenty of men who never
> > cross the line of "mis-communication" into rape. That seems clear > 
looking at Koss and follow up studies, as well as Lisak. While there
> are > definitely culture factors that support rape, it seems to me to be > 
important to look at why the majority of men don't rape, even when in
> > ambiguous situations, and a minority do.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Juliette Grimmett 
>   To: Amanda Childress ; Tom Schiff 
>   Cc: 
> 
>  
>   Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:10 PM
>   Subject: Re: Looking for speaker team
>
>
>   Dear Amanda, I am reading what you wrote, and the bottom line for
> me > is that I am not of the belief that men just didn't realize they
> raped > someone.  I am also talking about coercion here and am very 
> concerned
> > about the idea that we can just show men how to communicate and that
> > will end rape - this to me assumes that  they are these poor guys
> that > don't get it.  I just don't believe that and the research doesn't
> show > that either.  David Lisak's work on the undetected rapist speaks very
> > clearly about how intentional and planned these acts are and if we
> focus > rape/sexual battery prevention programs on thinking we can just get
> > these guys to get it - I really think we are missing the boat.  The
> > average person that rapes starts at age 13 - this is a learned
> behavior > most of the time.  While we may get a *few* random guys, I just 
don't
> > believe this is the way to prevent rape.  I really fear it minimizes
> the > acts and let's these 4-6.4% of men that rape, off the hook.
>
>
>
>   Are you an NCSU student that is interested in being a Sexual & > 
Relationship Violence Peer Educator?  Then come join The Movement. > 
Application can be found online at
> http://www.ncsu.edu/womens_center/. ;> Please contact Juliette for more 
information.. 
>
>   Juliette Grimmett, MPH
>   Rape Prevention Education Coordinator
>   NC State University
>   Women's Center
>   3120 Talley Student Center
>   Campus BOX 7306
>   Raleigh, NC 27695-7306
>   Office: (919) 513-3232
>   24 Hour Sexual Violence Hotline: (919)618-RAPE (7273)
>   Fax: (919) 515-1066
>   email: 
> 
>
>
>
>
>   >>> Amanda Childress 
> <>
>  7/21/2008 3:51 PM >>>
>   We may have to consider the laws by state and consider what we're
> > looking for 
>   in a presentation. In Ohio, are sexual assault continuum looks at
> > sexual 
>   battery and rape very differently and our campus has more of a
> sexual > battery 
>   problem than rape, according to our legal definitions.
>
>   Sexual Battery: as 'COERCING another person into any type of > 
> intercourse 
that 
>   the person does not want OR having intercourse when the person's > 
> ability 
to 
>   consent is impaired by alcohol or other intoxicants.' 
>
>   Rape: 'using force or the threat of force to have intercourse OR > 
sustantially 
>   impairing another's judgement with a controlled substance to have
> > intercourse.
>
>   On most college campuses you're looking at SA's that involve
> coercion > and 
>   alcohol, not always force or the threat of force. The Sex Signals
> > program may 
>   not do a very good job if you're trying to address a campus culture
> of > forced 
>   RAPE. Because they don't hit on the force/threat of force or
> drugged > assaults. 
>   Their program looks more at the coercion and miscommunication that
> men > and 
>   women tend to do by assuming one thing and acting on it instead of
> > checking to 
>   get consent or verbalizing your wants. Even though it is still the
> one > who 
>   ACTS that is at fault, usually being the male. Most likely they
> need a > better 
>   disclaimer or introduction to address this in the Sex Signals
> program, > but 
>   their program tends to hit the perpretrators that "DON'T think that
> > what 
>   they're doing is sexual assault." The average Joes that were/are > 
socialized to 
>   think "she's playing hard to get, so I should keep persuing" or the
> > average 
>   Janes who think "I don't really like what he's doing, but it's not
> > nice to 
>   tell him that." Their program looks at risk reduction as to how
> each > person, 
>   male or female can reduce their risk of people getting in these > 
situations, 
>   where one person thinks it's consensual and the other feels
> violated. 
>
>   Hope that helps. 
>
>   Amanda Childress
>
>
>
>
>   Quoting Tom Schiff 
> <>:
>
>   > My experience of it was that it wasn't overt enough. The
> students
>   > with whom 
>   > I spoke used the word manipulated. And condescension. And again
> I
>   > agree with 
>   > Juliette, they seemed to focus on mis-communication, and thus
> could
>   > be 
>   > perceived has supporting victim blaming.
>   > 
>   > Another piece that Juliette brought up which I find interesting
> is
>   > about 
>   > behavior change. Has this program, or other similar programs,
> done
>   > any 
>   > evaluation of impact (not whether folks were entertained)?
>   > 
>   > Sorry if I sound cynical. Not my best day today. However, I will
> add
>   > that 
>   > perhaps this program could be very effective if framed well in
> the
>   > context 
>   > of lots of other ongoing work.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > From: "Chad Sniffen" 
> <>
>   > To: 
> <>
>   > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 2:45 PM
>   > Subject: RE: Looking for speaker team
>   > 
>   > 
>   > > Tom, could you say a little bit more about what you found to
> be
>   > > manipulative about it?
>   > >
>   > > Thanks,
>   > > Chad
>   > >
>   > > -----Original Message-----
>   > > From: 
> 
>   > > 
> [mailto:]
>  On Behalf Of Tom
>   > Schiff
>   > > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 11:42 AM
>   > > To: 
> 
>   > > Subject: Re: Looking for speaker team
>   > >
>   > > I saw this production a few years ago, and unless it has
> changed,
>   > I
>   > > would agree with Juliette. I found it to be manipulative.
> Isn't
>   > that
>   > > something we are working against?
>   > >
>   > > Perhaps Jackson, etc. have women with whom they work and with
> whom
>   > you
>   > > could con-contract. MVP out of Northeastern typically has
> female /
>   > male
>   > > teams working together.
>   > >
>   > > Tom Schiff, Ed.D.
>   > > Health Education
>   > > University Health Services
>   > > 150 Infirmary Way
>   > > University of Massachusetts
>   > > Amherst, MA 01003
>   > > _______________________________________________
>   > > SAPC mailing list
>   > > 
> 
>   > > https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
>   > > 
>   > 
>   > _______________________________________________
>   > SAPC mailing list
>   > 
> 
>   > https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
>   > 
>
>
>
>   Amanda Childress
>   Assistant Director
>   Division of Student Affairs
>   Department of Health Promotion
>   *********************************
>   Ohio University
>   339 Baker University Center
>   1 Park Place
>   Athens, OH 45701
>   740.593.4742
>   
> 
>   www.ohio.edu/healthwell
>   _______________________________________________
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> 
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> 



Amanda Childress
Assistant Director
Division of Student Affairs
Department of Health Promotion
*********************************
Ohio University
339 Baker University Center
1 Park Place
Athens, OH 45701
740.593.4742

www.ohio.edu/healthwell