Discussion List for campus-based and allied personnel working to end gender-based violence on campus.

["Tom Schiff" <>]

I keep agreeing with Juliette. The numbers don't bear out it being a simple 
matter of mis-communication. There are plenty of men who never cross the line 
of "mis-communication" into rape. That seems clear looking at Koss and follow 
up studies, as well as Lisak. While there are definitely culture factors that 
support rape, it seems to me to be important to look at why the majority of 
men don't rape, even when in ambiguous situations, and a minority do.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Juliette Grimmett 
  To: Amanda Childress ; Tom Schiff 
  Cc: 

 
  Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:10 PM
  Subject: Re: Looking for speaker team


  Dear Amanda, I am reading what you wrote, and the bottom line for me is 
that I am not of the belief that men just didn't realize they raped someone.  
I am also talking about coercion here and am very concerned about the idea 
that we can just show men how to communicate and that will end rape - this to 
me assumes that  they are these poor guys that don't get it.  I just don't 
believe that and the research doesn't show that either.  David Lisak's work 
on the undetected rapist speaks very clearly about how intentional and 
planned these acts are and if we focus rape/sexual battery prevention 
programs on thinking we can just get these guys to get it - I really think we 
are missing the boat.  The average person that rapes starts at age 13 - this 
is a learned behavior most of the time.  While we may get a *few* random 
guys, I just don't believe this is the way to prevent rape.  I really fear it 
minimizes the acts and let's these 4-6.4% of men that rape, off the hook.



  Are you an NCSU student that is interested in being a Sexual & Relationship 
Violence Peer Educator?  Then come join The Movement. Application can be 
found online at http://www.ncsu.edu/womens_center/. Please contact Juliette ;
for more information.. 

  Juliette Grimmett, MPH
  Rape Prevention Education Coordinator
  NC State University
  Women's Center
  3120 Talley Student Center
  Campus BOX 7306
  Raleigh, NC 27695-7306
  Office: (919) 513-3232
  24 Hour Sexual Violence Hotline: (919)618-RAPE (7273)
  Fax: (919) 515-1066
  email: 





  >>> Amanda Childress 
<>
 7/21/2008 3:51 PM >>>
  We may have to consider the laws by state and consider what we're looking 
for 
  in a presentation. In Ohio, are sexual assault continuum looks at sexual 
  battery and rape very differently and our campus has more of a sexual 
battery 
  problem than rape, according to our legal definitions.

  Sexual Battery: as 'COERCING another person into any type of intercourse 
that 
  the person does not want OR having intercourse when the person's ability to 
  consent is impaired by alcohol or other intoxicants.' 

  Rape: 'using force or the threat of force to have intercourse OR 
sustantially 
  impairing another's judgement with a controlled substance to have 
intercourse.

  On most college campuses you're looking at SA's that involve coercion and 
  alcohol, not always force or the threat of force. The Sex Signals program 
may 
  not do a very good job if you're trying to address a campus culture of 
forced 
  RAPE. Because they don't hit on the force/threat of force or drugged 
assaults. 
  Their program looks more at the coercion and miscommunication that men and 
  women tend to do by assuming one thing and acting on it instead of checking 
to 
  get consent or verbalizing your wants. Even though it is still the one who 
  ACTS that is at fault, usually being the male. Most likely they need a 
better 
  disclaimer or introduction to address this in the Sex Signals program, but 
  their program tends to hit the perpretrators that "DON'T think that what 
  they're doing is sexual assault." The average Joes that were/are socialized 
to 
  think "she's playing hard to get, so I should keep persuing" or the average 
  Janes who think "I don't really like what he's doing, but it's not nice to 
  tell him that." Their program looks at risk reduction as to how each 
person, 
  male or female can reduce their risk of people getting in these situations, 
  where one person thinks it's consensual and the other feels violated. 

  Hope that helps. 

  Amanda Childress




  Quoting Tom Schiff 
<>:

  > My experience of it was that it wasn't overt enough. The students
  > with whom 
  > I spoke used the word manipulated. And condescension. And again I
  > agree with 
  > Juliette, they seemed to focus on mis-communication, and thus could
  > be 
  > perceived has supporting victim blaming.
  > 
  > Another piece that Juliette brought up which I find interesting is
  > about 
  > behavior change. Has this program, or other similar programs, done
  > any 
  > evaluation of impact (not whether folks were entertained)?
  > 
  > Sorry if I sound cynical. Not my best day today. However, I will add
  > that 
  > perhaps this program could be very effective if framed well in the
  > context 
  > of lots of other ongoing work.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "Chad Sniffen" 
<>
  > To: 
<>
  > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 2:45 PM
  > Subject: RE: Looking for speaker team
  > 
  > 
  > > Tom, could you say a little bit more about what you found to be
  > > manipulative about it?
  > >
  > > Thanks,
  > > Chad
  > >
  > > -----Original Message-----
  > > From: 

  > > 
[mailto:]
 On Behalf Of Tom
  > Schiff
  > > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 11:42 AM
  > > To: 

  > > Subject: Re: Looking for speaker team
  > >
  > > I saw this production a few years ago, and unless it has changed,
  > I
  > > would agree with Juliette. I found it to be manipulative. Isn't
  > that
  > > something we are working against?
  > >
  > > Perhaps Jackson, etc. have women with whom they work and with whom
  > you
  > > could con-contract. MVP out of Northeastern typically has female /
  > male
  > > teams working together.
  > >
  > > Tom Schiff, Ed.D.
  > > Health Education
  > > University Health Services
  > > 150 Infirmary Way
  > > University of Massachusetts
  > > Amherst, MA 01003
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > SAPC mailing list
  > > 

  > > https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
  > > 
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > SAPC mailing list
  > 

  > https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
  > 



  Amanda Childress
  Assistant Director
  Division of Student Affairs
  Department of Health Promotion
  *********************************
  Ohio University
  339 Baker University Center
  1 Park Place
  Athens, OH 45701
  740.593.4742
  

  www.ohio.edu/healthwell
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