Discussion List for campus-based and allied personnel working to end gender-based violence on campus.

["Juliette Grimmett" <>]

yes yes yes - the piece about sexual violence being an act that perps
don't realize they are doing makes me crazy - that is why I don't like
the Sex Signals program.  This should not at all be about telling them
that this is what it is, so now they won't do it!  The men's part should
be about being an empowered bystander and teaching them skills in which
to do this.  I have talked to nformd about this and in fact they have
taken some of my bystander activities and are considering ways to
include that with the program.  The verbal judo stuff is funky to me as
well.  Even in a best case scenario in which somehow she does get away
from him, once again the responsibility is put on the survivor AND this
is not primary prevention - he will go find someone else to rape - does
not address any cultural change at all - to me it is exactly like the
self-defense approach, which I do not agree with.

this is a great discussion, thank you to all...

"It's so liberating and important for men to understand that they can
actually be friendly to women instead of playing some gender-specific
role, and that women are in most ways the same as they are. I think that
lots of women already know that, but not so many guys do."  -my dad
8/3/07
 
Juliette Grimmett, MPH
Rape Prevention Education Coordinator
NC State University
Women's Center
3120 Talley Student Center
Campus BOX 7306
Raleigh, NC 27695-7306
Office: (919) 513-3232
24 Hour Sexual Violence Hotline: (919)618-RAPE (7273)
Fax: (919) 515-1066
email: 

website: http://www.ncsu.edu/womens_center
 


>>> "Sarah Holdwick" 
>>> <>
>>>  12/12/2007
10:33 AM >>>
As Juliette mentioned, there is no one program that will perfectly
address every aspect of SA in a way that will reach everyone.  There is
a lot of useful information included in the nformd program, but I agree
with Sean about the "Verbal Judo" section.  It sends a lot of mixed
messages and ultimately holds women responsible for preventing the
assault.  I also question the soundness of telling women to "crap your
pants" because "you will be less attractive to him" as a realistic
defense tactic against sexual assault.  Are they kidding?  For one, I do
not know of too many women who, given the context of acquaintance or
intimate partner sexual assault, would consider that a reasonable
option.  Secondly, SA has nothing to do with attractiveness.  Lastly, I
flat out laughed when the female student stated she had HIV and the male
student responded with "so do I."  I get the point- say whatever you
think will work and get the hell out of there- but think the method in
which this message was relayed is somewhat crude, irresponsible, and
even mocking.

Underneath the dialogue is the idea that many (most?) men who commit
sexual assault in the college context do not know they are perpetrators
and that they do it by accident.  While I think the program does a
fairly decent job of explaining certain rape myths, I am very
uncomfortable with this idea partly because it provides a loophole for
assailants to avoid responsibility for their actions and also because it
minimizes the impact of sexual assault on the victim as 'he didn't
really mean it.'  This is something that has previously come up on the
listserv, so I digress, but this reminds me of a journal article written
by Beth Quinn and published in Gender and Society (www.gas.sagepub.com)
entitled "Sexual Harassment and Masculinity: The Power and Meaning of
'Girl Watching.'"  The article suggests that masculinity must constantly
be proven and performed, often at the expense of women through
activities such as sexual harassment.  Men either directly or indirectly
understand the objectifying nature of sexual harassment but essentially
choose to refuse to empathize with the hurt a woman may feel because of
harassment they perpetrate.  The issue is not that men don't get it but
that most CHOOSE not to get it for fear of identifying with women's life
experiences.

Thoughts?


Sarah Holdwick
Sexual Assault Advocate & Prevention Educator
Underground Railroad, Inc.
(989) 755-0413 ext. 223
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: 

[mailto:]
 On Behalf Of Sean
Chavez
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:40 PM
To: Linder, Chris; 

 
Subject: RE: online sexual assault program

I also have a concern about the "Verbal Judo" and the goal of this is
to "escape" out of a situation without any "form of physical or verbal
resistance." Being from a resistance based state I don't feel that is
the best advice to give women. 
Any thoughts? 

Sean Chavez
Program Specialist
Violence Prevention Programs
University of Idaho 

 
208-885-2095
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 

[mailto:]
 On Behalf Of
Linder,Chris
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:30 AM
To: Juliette Grimmett; Katherine G Rose-Mockry;
;
 Candace Daniels
Subject: RE: online sexual assault program

Hi All,

I have some significant concerns around the material included in this
online sexual assault program. While I recognize that it clearly works
for some campuses with limited staff and resources, I think it is
important to recognize that this program is at best heterosexist and at
worst homophobic. The use of male on male rape to evoke empathy in
college men has been controversial for some time, and this program uses
that perspective. I think the homophobic message inherent in this type
of "empathy" causes far more damage than good. In addition, the video
perpetuates many essentializing messages around gender that further
alienates transgender and gender-queer students. We have done a
disservice to the GLB and Transgender community for far too long and I
think that the use of heterosexist material continues this. I'm not sure
how to counter this when doing these kinds of generic programs that
might be better than not doing anything, but I think it needs to at
least be acknowledg
 ed.

In addition to the lack of messages around GLB and T issues, it also
does not address other marginalized populations - issues around sexual
assault are different in communities of color and the disabled community
than they are in the dominant culture, and this program does not address
these factors either.

It is also expensive. If someone would give our office $6 for every
incoming student to our campus, we could do a lot to reach incoming
students in various ways - potentially multiple programs in 1st year
classes.

Just some more food for thought...

Chris




Chris Linder
Director, Women's Programs & Studies
112  Student Services
Fort Collins, CO 80523-8200
Phone: (970) 491-6384
Fax: (970) 491-4922

 
wps.colostate.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: 

[mailto:]
 On Behalf Of Juliette
Grimmett
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:48 AM
To: Katherine G Rose-Mockry; 
;
 Candace
Daniels
Subject: RE: online sexual assault program

Hi Kathy and everyone else-

your concerns are all very valid.  Ultimately, just like with any
program, there is no perfect way to do this.  My thoughts are that
this
program is a great way to get something out to all of your students as
long as you ALSO continue to do programming all over campus to show
that
there is a person behind this AND that they know there is someone they
can speak with.  By itself with no follow-up, not a great idea.

I definitely heard that some of our students multi-tasked during the
program and that can't be helped.  Even in a classroom, who knows
which
students are doing something else...what can be an advantage to this
program is that for students that are very uncomfortable in groups or
for those that may be triggered, this type of module allows students
to
do it on their own time, in phases, and in a place that they feel
safe.


I looked at this program as being able to do SOMETHING that I can't. 
I
alone cannot go and provide a baseline program for all 5000+
first-year
students.  Some of them I will be able to reach in a classroom, RA
training, housing workshop, etc., but it is not guaranteed.  This at
least ensures the opportunity of reaching them all, and provides some
baseline if I get to meet with them in person.  From the data we have
been collecting, most students incoming students (upwards of 90%) have
not received any SV programming before coming to campus, so this is
better than nothing.

Also, while modules with acting can have a cheese factor, they are a
million times better than the SexualAssault EDU program and have some
diversity in their members.  I haven't gone through all of our
evaluations/data, but overall it seems that at least our students did
not find it too cheesy, but it is definitely a great idea to ask your
students what they think.

Also, the price is what they call "the price of a movie ticket per
person."  So, somewhere around $7/8 per student is my guess.  You may
be
able to work out a figure that works for both of you if you decide to
go
ahead with the program.

All this said, it is a huge cost and something that I believe the
University/College itself should pay for - not the Women's Centers and
IPV centers.  Many are paying for the Alcohol EDU program, we need to
get them on board with this as well.

juliette

"It's so liberating and important for men to understand that they can
actually be friendly to women instead of playing some gender-specific
role, and that women are in most ways the same as they are. I think
that
lots of women already know that, but not so many guys do."  -my dad
8/3/07

Juliette Grimmett, MPH
Rape Prevention Education Coordinator
NC State University
Women's Center
3120 Talley Student Center
Campus BOX 7306
Raleigh, NC 27695-7306
Office: (919) 513-3232
24 Hour Sexual Violence Hotline: (919)618-RAPE (7273)
Fax: (919) 515-1066
email: 

 
website: http://www.ncsu.edu/womens_center ;



>>> "Rose-Mockry, Katherine G" 
>>> <>
>>>  12/11/2007 11:26
AM
>>>
Hi Candace and group members,

I received this information as well and visited the site to view the
program.  From my perspective, it is a good idea but has some inherent
problems:

1.  Students can multi-task (or simply not attend to it) while
watching.
The video producers have included a pre and post test to make it less
likely students will stop watching it altogether, but I think smart
students know how to answer these with limited involvement.

2.  It is easier to not connect emotionally when watching a video than
in a presentation.  I've always felt that one of our most important
tasks is connecting with students on an emotional level, which is
where
the real change comes about.

3.  The student actors come off as too "scripted" and the dialogue
seems
a bit insincere for me - students may not see it the way I do though.

I am going to get some of our students to take a look at it and give
me
feedback - would like to know what those of you who have used it think
about it.  I also notice it's hard to get specific info about the cost
of this program.

Kathy

Kathy Rose-Mockry
Program Director, Emily Taylor Women's Resource Center
University of Kansas
(785) 864-3552

 
www.etwrc.ku.edu 

The Student Involvement and Leadership Center exists because
involvement
enhances learning




-----Original Message-----
From: 

 
[mailto:]
 On Behalf Of Daniels,
Candace
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:00 AM
To: 

 
Subject: online sexual assault program


Hello all -



I just received a brochure in the mail about an online sexual assault
prevention program called nformd.net (http://nformd.net ;
<http://nformd.net/> ). I have never heard of it before today, and
wanted to know if anyone has any experience with it. If you have used
it, how was it received on your campus? Do the students actually visit
the site?



Thanks!!





Candace Daniels

Sexual Assault Response and Prevention Coordinator

St. Mary's College of Maryland

TEL: 240.895.4289


 



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Be empowered...

.....to STOP sexual violence...

.....to ACT as an intervening bystander...

.....to STAND as a man against sexual violence...

.....BE EMPOWERED.



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