On apr 10, 2556 BE, at 01:18, Dionysis Boukouvalas wrote: It's been years, but - simply put - in the first line, am I not looking for a "J" without an "O"?
Yes, and you, unfortunately have an "o" following in the first line. The "O" in joyce should become the "O" in john's name on the second line: James jOyce
(i don't know if the above graphic will show correctly, but you'l understand, I think).
Rod
Unless you mean without an "E" as well. But this is the very first line of the poem. In a second mesostic I would care for the "E" too. But for the first line, wouldn't that make sense only if the text would be read cyclically? I don't recall Cage's rule on the first line though and I might have it wrong.
From: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 17:21:47 -0500 To: Subject: [silence] Re: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator I hope your Liturgy mesostics weren't written like this - ha! The first line is wrong.
Rod
On apr 9, 2556 BE, at 17:12, Dionysis Boukouvalas wrote: James joyce
rOaratorio
paragrapHs
iNdividual words
Come with the
eArly
writinGs
by thE proper names
From: To: Subject: RE: [silence] Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 00:48:49 +0300 Well, I'm quite aware of John's rules. In fact I have written mesostics (100% if I recall well) through the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom - a first step at a realization of "Circus on" (hyphens omitted - don't recall where they go or how long they are...) The musical part would consists of early Byzantine hymns. Also a handy text (few places and sounds mentioned). Thing is, I had never realized that the rules were binding. And the reason the rules were applied is, so to speak, to "honor" each letter?
From: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 16:39:14 -0500 To: Subject: [silence] Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator Herb's right.
I'll mention something that I'm saying to someone off the Forum:
I think that there's a general process where
a new art/text form is invented and then a name is
created afterwards whereby if the form is successful or,
simply, becomes well-known (for good or bad), then
the name lives. So, after a very long time of referring to
specific letters embedded in a text in very specific places
as acrostics (which, historically, was the way ALL highlighted letterforms inside text were referred), then Cage comes up with not just a simple pattern down the middle, but, rather, a creative text idea that finds it's pattern and name later.
As a matter of fact, he was unhappy with his first creation because even tho it followed his new "rules" and emphasized certain letters over others thru capitalization, it was originally written horizontally and looked too square and boxy to him. I think this Brown story is mentioned on the very first page of "M."
The lazy "no rules" version followed, I'm convinced, when readers were wooed by the look (like Dionysis) but knew nothing of the method underlying it.
Finally, one of the most important aspects of mesostic creating goes beyond the careful placement of letters. It is the aspect of what could be called "essence" - that ability to create a mesostic that, sometimes subtly, represents the quintessence of its subject matter that spelled out in the spine. That's the place to look for further evidence of John's genius.
Rod
On apr 9, 2556 BE, at 16:15, Herb Levy wrote: Making some kind of distinction between a "Cagean mesostic" and some other kind of mesostic seems rather pointless to me.
The mesostic form did not exist until Cage developed it. If his rules don't matter, whose rules should?
--- On Tue, 4/9/13, Dionysis Boukouvalas <> wrote:
From: Dionysis Boukouvalas <>
Subject: [silence] RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator
To: "Silence" <>
Date: Tuesday, April 9, 2013, 3:44 PM
Depends on your definition of "haiku" :-) There is of course the traditional well-defined haiku, but who forbids us from widening the concept? By the way, did Cage widen the concept of the Acrostic or not? In some ways yes, in other not. As for what a Cagean mesostic is, I know that quite well, thank you :-) I just thought that it's not all there is to be.
From: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 15:35:59 -0500 To: Subject: [silence] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator Yes, but it is NOT a haiku - that's my point.
Rod
On apr 9, 2556 BE, at 15:24, Dionysis Boukouvalas wrote: It does
From: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 15:01:58 -0500 To: Subject: [silence] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator They look like mesostics in the same way that this looks like a haiku.
ㄷ
On apr 9, 2556 BE, at 10:29, Dionysis Boukouvalas wrote: They sure look like mesostics to me. Why are you saying that they are not mesostics? I'm guessing you are referring to the mesostic rules here?
From: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 09:52:26 -0500 To: Subject: [silence] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator It's a "mesostic generator" that doesn't generate mesostics.
ஐ
--- Now playing: Trembling Bells - Adieu, England
http://stasick.orgOn apr 9, 2556 BE, at 09:46, Dionysis Boukouvalas wrote: Because I don't want to search it now, what exactly is the problem?
From: Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 09:11:48 -0500 To: Subject: [silence] Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator Well, the idea is nice - and the look is attractive, but a pretty car that doesn't work properly is pretty much useless no matter what kinds of variables or, as the software creator states, "extended features" and "additional options" it has. I may drop the fellow a line to have him keep me up-to-date on when he gets it working.
best,
︣
--- Now playing: Eliane Radigue & Charles Curtis - Naldjorlak
On apr 9, 2556 BE, at 06:43, Dionysis Boukouvalas wrote: Still nice though :-) Well of course, a lot of variables should be available to the user, as to the exact nature of the mesostics produced. Let's hope they get there! (Let us know when they will.)
From: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 22:29:50 -0500 To: Subject: [silence] Re: Re: Mesostic generator The only real problem with the examples shown is that they are not mesostics, so the software needs to work. Trying John's name with the CNN setting (and the Louis Goldstein example) still brings up non-mesostics as well apparently.
R
On apr 7, 2556 BE, at 10:02, Rob Haskins wrote: In honor of Roger Ebert, here are 10 mesostics on his name
| | | | Rogerebert.com | | m | Ovie | | ' | Great | | movi | Es': | | glossa | Ry | | | | on | E-minute | | | By | | yahoo! movi | E | | p | Rotagonist | | s | Tumbles, | | | | ove | R | | | On | | "hi | Gh | | "ac | E | | f | Ran | | | | p | Elzman | | | Buy | | tick | Ets. | | | Rss | | headlines abou | T | | | | & | Raquo; email | | m | Ovie | | passin | G | | h | Er | | c | Ritic:“i | | | | d | Evastated | | | By | | th | E | | oh-so-b | Rilliant | | fough | T | | | | cou | Rageous | | l | Ost | | hi | Ghs | | th | E | | humo | R, | | | | d | Eep | | a | Biding | | lov | E | | fo | R | | movies.excep | T | | | | fo | R | | th | Ose | | darin | G | | dir | Ector, | | o | R, | | | | id | Eally, | | | By | | tattoo-spangl | Ed | | th | Rough | | | Tent | | | | hund | Red | | gl | Obe-shaped | | ca | Ge. | | | Extended | | t | Racking | | | | b | E | | a | Bout | | | Experience | | t | Ry | | | To | | | | you | R | | vacati | On, | | teena | Gers | | hav | E | | va | Rious | | | | th | E | | a | Bout | | attractiv | E | | fo | R | | | Twisted | | | | a | Re | | n | Othing | | i | Gnatiy | | vishn | Evetsky"trance", | | fo | R | | | | g | Et | | a | Bramsa | | romanc | E, | | d | Rama, | | | Tantalizes | | | | viewe | Rs | | | Open-ended | | sin | Gular, | | myst | Erious | | fo | Rm | | | | caus | Ed | | | By | | ali | Enates | | f | Rom | | | Them. | | | | | Room | | wh | Ole | | waitin | G | | b | Ehind | | doo | R | | | | th | E | | ku | Brick's | | "th | E | | acco | Rding | | | To |
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