Scholarly discussion of the music of John Cage.

[Guy De Bievre <>]

in that case you might find Leif Brush' work rewarding:
http://www.d.umn.edu/~lbrush/

Simon Roy Christensen wrote:
> yes, very!
>
> and thanks a lot for the responses - they are all very helpful!
>
> the replies show quickly how enormous this field is. Especially when 
> you set the topic as vaguely as I guess I did by "music including 
> nature, or maybe rather the acting of nature". I was actually thinking 
> of a somehow more /direct/ and active form of nature acting in music; 
> where nature is an essential, practical participant in 
> the /production/ in either form, content or both of the musical 
> outcome, more than "just" a passive sound source as in field 
> recordings or like instruments such as Cage's "Branches" or Wolff's 
> "Stones", for instance. Or as inspiration like in Messiaen's 
> transcriptions (though I'm not sure if it's adequate to call his 
> utilization of birdsong "inspiration", since I know very little about 
> him and his works - but if it's not inspiration, what is it then?)
> I think it's possible to set up a difference between the ways of 
> incorporating nature where on the one hand it solely acts as a source 
> of sound material that you more or less rework (in the same way as 
> with any other kind of sound material) or also as inspiration, and 
> then having birds put into a room full of amplified guitars, 
> instruments being dependent on the wind blowing or waves waving in 
> order to have them sounding or letting the position of the stars 
> decide directly how a given piece should be played, on the other (and 
> there are probably more "hands").
>
> but anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for your replies! Theres a lot 
> I'm looking forward to dip into.
>
>
> simon
>
> 2010/6/5 Graham Urquhart < 
> <mailto:>>
>
>     Interesting thread.
>
>     By concidence, the latest newsletter from the Touch label dropped
>     into my inbox today. A couple of very topical items relating to
>     this thread concerning Daniel Menche and Chris Watson - details below.
>
>     Cheers
>
>     Graham
>
>     
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Daniel Menche "Raw Fall"
>
>     Cassette only - limited edition of 250 copies
>
>     Track listing:
>     A: Raw Waterfall Recording Of Tunnel Falls At The Eagle Creek
>     Trail In The Columbia River Gorge In Oregon, USA - 19m54s
>     B: Raw Waterfall Recording Of The South Falls In Silver Falls
>     State Park Located In The Oregon Cascade Mountains, USA - 20m01s
>
>     "There is a reason for this madness and that is the waterfall" -
>     Roger Steen
>
>     Daniel Menche documented the field trips he and his dog Arrow
>     took, to capture these two recordings, on his blog: here and here.
>
>     "DRAMA is the goal. Maybe to you it's noise and maybe it's music
>     yet DRAMA is my only goal. I only desire to create the most
>     dramatic energy possible with sound. Whether it's quiet or loud
>     the aim will always be DRAMA." - Daniel Menche
>
>
>     Buy Daniel Menche "Raw Fall" in the TouchShop
>     Release details on www.tapeworm.org.uk <http://www.tapeworm.org.uk>
>     danielmenche.blogspot.com <http://danielmenche.blogspot.com>
>
>
>     Chris Watson | Live in London
>
>     On 22 June 2010, 6pm, Chris will be performing at Barnard's Inn
>     Hall, Gresham College. Throughout May and June the British Isles
>     resonate to some of the strangest and most beautiful sounds on
>     earth; the voices; rhythms and music of our wildlife. In an
>     acoustic journey from the vast seabird cliffs in the far north to
>     nocturnal soloists hidden in deep cover within Home Counties
>     woodlands Chris Watson celebrates the sonic biodiversity found
>     across our unique landscapes. This is a part of the series of
>     events which are to be held in collaboration with the 2010 City of
>     London Festival.
>
>     Chris's Whispering in the Leaves installation at Kew Gardens' Palm
>     House continues throughout the summer. A list of special events,
>     performances, talks and workshops relating to the installation can
>     be discovered at www.whisperingintheleaves.org
>     <http://www.whisperingintheleaves.org>
>
>     Chris's back catalogue is still available, and you can buy all 3
>     solo CDs [Stepping into the Dark, Outside the Circle of Fire and
>     Weather Report] in a bundle at a discounted rate... See the Chris
>     Watson catalogue page in the TouchShop
>
>
>     www.gresham.ac.uk <http://www.gresham.ac.uk>
>     www.whisperingintheleaves.org <http://www.whisperingintheleaves.org>
>     www.chriswatson.net <http://www.chriswatson.net>
>
>
>
>
>     David Badagnani wrote:
>
>         Japanese composer/performer Yoshiaki Ochi's "Beat the Water,"
>         "Beat the Wood," etc.
>
>         http://www.dakinirecords.com/~English/Ochis_Works.html
>         <http://www.dakinirecords.com/%7EEnglish/Ochis_Works.html>
>         <http://www.dakinirecords.com/%7EEnglish/Ochis_Works.html>
>
>
>         Miya Masaoka has worked with plants and insects:
>
>         
> http://www.miyamasaoka.com/interdisciplinary/brainwaves_plants/index.html
>         http://www.miyamasaoka.com/interdisciplinary/skin_insects/index.html
>
>         If you want to trace it back further, since you say your
>         project is historical in nature, many, if not most traditional
>         cultures around the world have legends about humans first
>         learning about the concept of musical sound from birds or
>         other animals.  The ethnomusicologist Steven Feld has noted
>         that the Kaluli of Papua New Guinea, for example, "sing with,
>         to and about birds, water, insects."
>
>         http://tinyurl.com/2wmj7dp
>         *
>         *And some of the earliest surviving musical instruments are
>         flutes (often made from the bones of birds or other animals,
>         or clay).  So the concept goes back much further than John
>         Cage. :-)
>
>         --
>         David Badagnani
>         Kent, Ohio
>         United States
>
>         --- On *Thu, 6/3/10, Nicolás Carrasco
>         
> /<
>         
> <mailto:>
>         
> <mailto:
>         
> <mailto:>>>/*
>  wrote:
>
>            From: Nicolás Carrasco 
> <
>         
> <mailto:>
>            
> <mailto:
>         
> <mailto:>>>
>
>            Subject: [silence] Re: Re: music and/including nature in its
>            manner of operation
>            To: "simon reynell" 
> <
>         
> <mailto:>
>            
> <mailto:
>         
> <mailto:>>>
>
>            Cc: "Simon Roy Christensen" 
> <
>         
> <mailto:>
>            
> <mailto:
>         
> <mailto:>>>,
>            
>
>         
> <mailto:>
>         
> <mailto:
>         
> <mailto:>>
>
>            Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 1:23 PM
>
>            Just seconding Simon Reynell and others:
>
>            Toshiya Tsunoda, Michael Prime, Francisco López; David Tudor's
>            Rainforest & Sea tails; Lee Patterson
>
>            add Jeph Jerman, marvelous music with and/or in nature: from
>            amplifying insects, to field or location recordings, to his
>            Animist Orchestra (7 or 8 players all improvising with sticks,
>            stones, leaves, bones, feathers, shells), etc.
>
>            Michael Pisaro
>
>            David Dunn
>
>            N.
>
>            2010/6/3 simon reynell 
> <
>         
> <mailto:>
>            
> </
>         
> <mailto:>>>
>
>
>
>                 Hello Simon
>
>                I know and like all the examples you cite, but there
>         are lots
>                of others.  In fact nature-based music of one kind or
>         another
>                is now a pretty crowded field.  There are dozens of people
>                producing pieces from field recordings (with various
>         degrees
>                of editing / manipulation) that use natural sounds as their
>                source (some of the best-known examples can be found on the
>                Touch label, people such as Chris Watson, BJ Nilsen and
>                Toshiya Tsunoda).
>                And then there are several very interesting musicians using
>                natural phenomena in various other interesting ways:  in my
>                opinion it's particularly worth checking out Jeph Jerman
>                (http://www.jerman.littleenjoyer.com/) and Patrick
>         Farmer (who
>                released a beautiful disc called Apis Mellifera from gently
>                transformed recordings of honey bees).  The latter runs
>         a web
>                label called 'compost and height' which has free
>         downloads of
>                several free eco- / natural-based musical
>         constructions:         *compostandheight*.blogspot.com
>         <http://blogspot.com> <http://blogspot.com>
>
>
>                The sound artist / improvising musician Lee Patterson
>         is also
>                very interesting in this respect, and - like Michael Prime,
>                who you mention - uses a lot of natural phenomena in
>         his work,
>                eg the amplification of sounds given off by burning
>         hazelnuts,
>                and hydrophonic recordings of pondlife etc.  His solo disc
>                'Seven Vignettes' is well worth checking out.
>
>                And several works by the US-based composer Michael
>         Pisaro are
>                also relevant, I think, in particular recent works such as
>                July Mountain, Fields Have Ears and A Wave and Waves,
>         all of
>                which in varying ways use natural phenomena as the basis of
>                their composition.
>
>                And going further back both Christian Wolff and Cornelius
>                Cardew used stones as sound source in works from the 1960's
>                and 70's.
>
>                I can pass on contact details for most of the
>         above-mentioned
>                if you are interested.
>
>                best wishes
>
>                Simon Reynell
>
>                70 High Storrs Road, Sheffield, S11 7LE, UK
>
>                www.anothertimbre.com <http://www.anothertimbre.com>
>         <http://www.anothertimbre.com>
>
>
>                <http://www.anothertimbre.com>
>
>
>                
>
>
>              
>          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                *From:* Simon Roy Christensen
>         
> <
>         
> <mailto:>
>                
> </
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> <mailto:>>>
>
>                *To:* 
>
>         
> <mailto:>
>                
> </
>         
> <mailto:>>
>
>                *Sent:* Thu, 3 June, 2010 0:14:14
>                *Subject:* [silence] music and/including nature in its
>         manner
>                of operation
>
>                hello hello
>
>
>                I hope this is not too off topic, but I'm about to write a
>                music-historical paper/essay on music including nature, or
>                maybe rather the acting of nature. Here I'm thinking of
>                examples like some of Max Eastley's sound sculptures, Paul
>                Panhuysen and Céleste Boursier-Mougenot use of birds,  John
>                Cage's "Atlas Eclipticalis" or the sounds of fungi and
>         plants
>                made audible by Michael Prime, for instance. Some of it
>                probably helped along its way due to Cage's renowned
>         remark of
>                having an art 'imitating nature in its manner of
>         operation'.
>                But maybe there are even pre-Cage examples also?
>
>
>                I was thinking that this might be a good place to ask
>         if any
>                of you can recommend artists, works, literature or
>         something
>                else that spring to mind, which might have some kind of
>                relevance to this - it would be very nice to hear!
>
>
>                thank you,
>
>                simon