Scholarly discussion of the music of John Cage.

[Simon Roy Christensen <>]

yes, very!

and thanks a lot for the responses - they are all very helpful!

the replies show quickly how enormous this field is. Especially when you set the topic as vaguely as I guess I did by "music including nature, or maybe rather the acting of nature". I was actually thinking of a somehow more direct and active form of nature acting in music; where nature is an essential, practical participant in the production in either form, content or both of the musical outcome, more than "just" a passive sound source as in field recordings or like instruments such as Cage's "Branches" or Wolff's "Stones", for instance. Or as inspiration like in Messiaen's transcriptions (though I'm not sure if it's adequate to call his utilization of birdsong "inspiration", since I know very little about him and his works - but if it's not inspiration, what is it then?)

I think it's possible to set up a difference between the ways of incorporating nature where on the one hand it solely acts as a source of sound material that you more or less rework (in the same way as with any other kind of sound material) or also as inspiration, and then having birds put into a room full of amplified guitars, instruments being dependent on the wind blowing or waves waving in order to have them sounding or letting the position of the stars decide directly how a given piece should be played, on the other (and there are probably more "hands").

but anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for your replies! Theres a lot I'm looking forward to dip into.

simon

2010/6/5 Graham Urquhart <>

Interesting thread.

By concidence, the latest newsletter from the Touch label dropped into my inbox today. A couple of very topical items relating to this thread concerning Daniel Menche and Chris Watson - details below.

Cheers

Graham

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Daniel Menche "Raw Fall"

Cassette only - limited edition of 250 copies

Track listing:
A: Raw Waterfall Recording Of Tunnel Falls At The Eagle Creek Trail In The Columbia River Gorge In Oregon, USA - 19m54s
B: Raw Waterfall Recording Of The South Falls In Silver Falls State Park Located In The Oregon Cascade Mountains, USA - 20m01s

"There is a reason for this madness and that is the waterfall" - Roger Steen

Daniel Menche documented the field trips he and his dog Arrow took, to capture these two recordings, on his blog: here and here.

"DRAMA is the goal. Maybe to you it's noise and maybe it's music yet DRAMA is my only goal. I only desire to create the most dramatic energy possible with sound. Whether it's quiet or loud the aim will always be DRAMA." - Daniel Menche


Buy Daniel Menche "Raw Fall" in the TouchShop
Release details on www.tapeworm.org.uk
danielmenche.blogspot.com


Chris Watson | Live in London

On 22 June 2010, 6pm, Chris will be performing at Barnard's Inn Hall, Gresham College. Throughout May and June the British Isles resonate to some of the strangest and most beautiful sounds on earth; the voices; rhythms and music of our wildlife. In an acoustic journey from the vast seabird cliffs in the far north to nocturnal soloists hidden in deep cover within Home Counties woodlands Chris Watson celebrates the sonic biodiversity found across our unique landscapes. This is a part of the series of events which are to be held in collaboration with the 2010 City of London Festival.

Chris's Whispering in the Leaves installation at Kew Gardens' Palm House continues throughout the summer. A list of special events, performances, talks and workshops relating to the installation can be discovered at www.whisperingintheleaves.org

Chris's back catalogue is still available, and you can buy all 3 solo CDs [Stepping into the Dark, Outside the Circle of Fire and Weather Report] in a bundle at a discounted rate... See the Chris Watson catalogue page in the TouchShop


www.gresham.ac.uk
www.whisperingintheleaves.org
www.chriswatson.net




David Badagnani wrote:

Japanese composer/performer Yoshiaki Ochi's "Beat the Water," "Beat the Wood," etc.

http://www.dakinirecords.com/~English/Ochis_Works.html <http://www.dakinirecords.com/%7EEnglish/Ochis_Works.html>

Miya Masaoka has worked with plants and insects:

http://www.miyamasaoka.com/interdisciplinary/brainwaves_plants/index.html http://www.miyamasaoka.com/interdisciplinary/skin_insects/index.html

If you want to trace it back further, since you say your project is historical in nature, many, if not most traditional cultures around the world have legends about humans first learning about the concept of musical sound from birds or other animals.  The ethnomusicologist Steven Feld has noted that the Kaluli of Papua New Guinea, for example, "sing with, to and about birds, water, insects."

http://tinyurl.com/2wmj7dp
*
*And some of the earliest surviving musical instruments are flutes (often made from the bones of birds or other animals, or clay).  So the concept goes back much further than John Cage. :-)

--
David Badagnani
Kent, Ohio
United States

--- On *Thu, 6/3/10, Nicolás Carrasco /< <mailto:>>/* wrote:

   From: Nicolás Carrasco <

   <mailto:>>

   Subject: [silence] Re: Re: music and/including nature in its
   manner of operation
   To: "simon reynell" <

   <mailto:>>

   Cc: "Simon Roy Christensen" <

   <mailto:>>,
    <mailto:>

   Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 1:23 PM

   Just seconding Simon Reynell and others:

   Toshiya Tsunoda, Michael Prime, Francisco López; David Tudor's
   Rainforest & Sea tails; Lee Patterson

   add Jeph Jerman, marvelous music with and/or in nature: from
   amplifying insects, to field or location recordings, to his
   Animist Orchestra (7 or 8 players all improvising with sticks,
   stones, leaves, bones, feathers, shells), etc.

   Michael Pisaro

   David Dunn

   N.

   2010/6/3 simon reynell <

   </mc/compose?to=>>

        Hello Simon

       I know and like all the examples you cite, but there are lots
       of others.  In fact nature-based music of one kind or another
       is now a pretty crowded field.  There are dozens of people
       producing pieces from field recordings (with various degrees
       of editing / manipulation) that use natural sounds as their
       source (some of the best-known examples can be found on the
       Touch label, people such as Chris Watson, BJ Nilsen and
       Toshiya Tsunoda).
       And then there are several very interesting musicians using
       natural phenomena in various other interesting ways:  in my
       opinion it's particularly worth checking out Jeph Jerman
       (http://www.jerman.littleenjoyer.com/) and Patrick Farmer (who
       released a beautiful disc called Apis Mellifera from gently
       transformed recordings of honey bees).  The latter runs a web
       label called 'compost and height' which has free downloads of

       several free eco- / natural-based musical constructions:         *compostandheight*.blogspot.com <http://blogspot.com>

       The sound artist / improvising musician Lee Patterson is also
       very interesting in this respect, and - like Michael Prime,
       who you mention - uses a lot of natural phenomena in his work,
       eg the amplification of sounds given off by burning hazelnuts,
       and hydrophonic recordings of pondlife etc.  His solo disc
       'Seven Vignettes' is well worth checking out.

       And several works by the US-based composer Michael Pisaro are
       also relevant, I think, in particular recent works such as
       July Mountain, Fields Have Ears and A Wave and Waves, all of
       which in varying ways use natural phenomena as the basis of
       their composition.

       And going further back both Christian Wolff and Cornelius
       Cardew used stones as sound source in works from the 1960's
       and 70's.

       I can pass on contact details for most of the above-mentioned
       if you are interested.

       best wishes

       Simon Reynell

       70 High Storrs Road, Sheffield, S11 7LE, UK

       www.anothertimbre.com <http://www.anothertimbre.com>


       <http://www.anothertimbre.com>

       


       ------------------------------------------------------------------------
       *From:* Simon Roy Christensen <

       </mc/compose?to=>>

       *To:*

       </mc/compose?to=>

       *Sent:* Thu, 3 June, 2010 0:14:14
       *Subject:* [silence] music and/including nature in its manner
       of operation

       hello hello


       I hope this is not too off topic, but I'm about to write a
       music-historical paper/essay on music including nature, or
       maybe rather the acting of nature. Here I'm thinking of
       examples like some of Max Eastley's sound sculptures, Paul
       Panhuysen and Céleste Boursier-Mougenot use of birds,  John
       Cage's "Atlas Eclipticalis" or the sounds of fungi and plants
       made audible by Michael Prime, for instance. Some of it
       probably helped along its way due to Cage's renowned remark of
       having an art 'imitating nature in its manner of operation'.
       But maybe there are even pre-Cage examples also?


       I was thinking that this might be a good place to ask if any
       of you can recommend artists, works, literature or something
       else that spring to mind, which might have some kind of
       relevance to this - it would be very nice to hear!


       thank you,

       simon