Scholarly discussion of the music of John Cage.

[Dionysis Boukouvalas <>]

                James joyce
              rOaratorio
paragrapHs
               iNdividual words

              Come with the
            eArly
   writinGs
     by thE proper names

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From:
To:
Subject: RE: [silence] Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 00:48:49 +0300

Well, I'm quite aware of John's rules. In fact I have written mesostics (100% if I recall well) through the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom - a first step at a realization of "Circus on" (hyphens omitted - don't recall where they go or how long they are...) The musical part would consists of early Byzantine hymns. Also a handy text (few places and sounds mentioned).

Thing is, I had never realized that the rules were binding.

And the reason the rules were applied is, so to speak, to "honor" each letter?

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From:
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 16:39:14 -0500
To:
Subject: [silence] Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator

Herb's right.

I'll mention something that I'm saying

to someone off the Forum:

I think that there's a general process where
a new art/text form is invented and then a name is
created afterwards whereby if the form is successful or,
simply, becomes well-known (for good or bad), then
the name lives. So, after a very long time of referring to
specific letters embedded in a text in very specific places
as acrostics (which, historically, was the way

ALL highlighted letterforms inside text were referred), 

then Cage comes up with not just a simple pattern down 

the middle, but, rather, a creative text idea that finds 

it's pattern and name later.

As a matter of fact, he was unhappy with his first creation 

because even tho it followed his new "rules" and emphasized 

certain letters over others thru capitalization, it was originally 

written horizontally and looked too square and boxy to him. 

I think this Brown story is mentioned on the very first page of "M."

The lazy "no rules" version followed, I'm convinced, when readers were wooed 

by the look (like Dionysis) but knew nothing of the method underlying it.

Finally, one of the most important aspects of mesostic creating

goes beyond the careful placement of letters. It is the aspect of

what could be called "essence" - that ability to create a mesostic

that, sometimes subtly, represents the quintessence of its subject matter

that spelled out in the spine. That's the place to look for further evidence

of John's genius.

Rod

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http://stasick.org

On apr 9, 2556 BE, at 16:15, Herb Levy wrote:

Making some kind of distinction between a "Cagean mesostic" and some other kind of mesostic seems rather pointless to me.

The mesostic form did not exist until Cage developed it. If his rules don't matter, whose rules should?





--- On Tue, 4/9/13, Dionysis Boukouvalas <> wrote:

From: Dionysis Boukouvalas <>
Subject: [silence] RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator
To: "Silence" <>
Date: Tuesday, April 9, 2013, 3:44 PM

Depends on your definition of "haiku" :-) There is of course the traditional well-defined haiku, but who forbids us from widening the concept? By the way, did Cage widen the concept of the Acrostic or not? In some ways yes, in other not.

As for what a Cagean mesostic is, I know that quite well, thank you :-) I just thought that it's not all there is to be.

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From:
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 15:35:59 -0500
To:
Subject: [silence] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator

Yes, but it is NOT a haiku - that's my point.

Rod

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http://stasick.org

On apr 9, 2556 BE, at 15:24, Dionysis Boukouvalas wrote:

It does

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From: 
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 15:01:58 -0500
To: 
Subject: [silence] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator

They look like mesostics 

in the same way that this looks 

like a haiku.

ㄷ

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http://stasick.org

On apr 9, 2556 BE, at 10:29, Dionysis Boukouvalas wrote:

They sure look like mesostics to me. Why are you saying that they are not mesostics? I'm guessing you are referring to the mesostic rules here?

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From: 
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 09:52:26 -0500
To: 
Subject: [silence] Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator

It's a "mesostic generator" that doesn't generate mesostics.

ஐ

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Now playing: Trembling Bells - Adieu, England

http://stasick.org

On apr 9, 2556 BE, at 09:46, Dionysis Boukouvalas wrote:

Because I don't want to search it now, what exactly is the problem?

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From: 
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 09:11:48 -0500
To: 
Subject: [silence] Re: RE: Re: Re: Mesostic generator

Well, the idea is nice - and the look is attractive,

but a pretty car that doesn't work properly is

pretty much useless no matter what kinds of 

variables or, as the software creator states,

"extended features" and "additional options"

it has. I may drop the fellow a line to have him

keep me up-to-date on when he gets it working.

best,

︣

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Now playing: Eliane Radigue & Charles Curtis - Naldjorlak

http://stasick.org

On apr 9, 2556 BE, at 06:43, Dionysis Boukouvalas wrote:

Still nice though :-)

Well of course, a lot of variables should be available to the user, as to the exact nature of the mesostics produced.
Let's hope they get there!
(Let us know when they will.)

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From: 
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2013 22:29:50 -0500
To: 
Subject: [silence] Re: Re: Mesostic generator

The only real problem with the examples shown

is that they are not mesostics, so the software

needs to work. Trying John's name with the

CNN setting (and the Louis Goldstein example)  

still brings up non-mesostics as well apparently.

R

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http://stasick.org

On apr 7, 2556 BE, at 10:02, Rob Haskins wrote:

In honor of Roger Ebert, here are 10 mesostics on his name

	Rogerebert.com
m	Ovie
'	Great
movi	Es':
glossa	Ry
on	E-minute
	By
yahoo! movi	E
p	Rotagonist
s	Tumbles,
ove	R
	On
"hi	Gh
"ac	E
f	Ran
p	Elzman
	Buy
tick	Ets.
	Rss
headlines abou	T
&	Raquo; email
m	Ovie
passin	G
h	Er
c	Ritic:“i
d	Evastated
	By
th	E
oh-so-b	Rilliant
fough	T
cou	Rageous
l	Ost
hi	Ghs
th	E
humo	R,
d	Eep
a	Biding
lov	E
fo	R
movies.excep	T
fo	R
th	Ose
darin	G
dir	Ector,
o	R,
id	Eally,
	By
tattoo-spangl	Ed
th	Rough
	Tent
hund	Red
gl	Obe-shaped
ca	Ge.
	Extended
t	Racking
b	E
a	Bout
	Experience
t	Ry
	To
you	R
vacati	On,
teena	Gers
hav	E
va	Rious
th	E
a	Bout
attractiv	E
fo	R
	Twisted
a	Re
n	Othing
i	Gnatiy
vishn	Evetsky"trance",
fo	R
g	Et
a	Bramsa
romanc	E,
d	Rama,
	Tantalizes
viewe	Rs
	Open-ended
sin	Gular,
myst	Erious
fo	Rm
caus	Ed
	By
ali	Enates
f	Rom
	Them.
	Room
wh	Ole
waitin	G
b	Ehind
doo	R
th	E
ku	Brick's
"th	E
acco	Rding
	To

On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 6:45 AM, Dionysis Boukouvalas <> wrote:

http://www.euph0r1a.net/mesostomatic

-- 
Rob Haskins, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Music, College of Liberal Arts
University of New Hampshire
M-105, Paul Creative Arts Center
30 Academic Way
Durham, NH 03824
603-862-3987 (office)
603-862-3155 (fax)
<http://unh.edu/music/>
<http://robhaskins.net>
<http://musicandmiscellaneous.blogspot.com/>