Discussion List for campus-based and allied personnel working to end gender-based violence on campus.

[Gillian Greensite <>]

Dear colleagues:

Regarding Wendy's description of the panel discussion on alcohol and  
sexual violence, I'd enjoy participating in any dialogue on this  
complex issue. I've almost finished reaching 5,000 students in groups  
of 400 in mandatory programming  ( think I mentioned that before)  
hence I have some spare moments to write this.  I've thought about  
this issue and fine-tuned programming for the past 29 years and feel  
we have a pretty sophisticated approach. Students' responses suggest  
we are able to shed some light on the "what's the difference between  
sex with a buzz and rape of an intoxicated person" question. So I'd  
be happy to share my approach and appreciate learning from others.

Best,

Gillian
UCSC Rape Prevention Education


On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:05 AM, 

 wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: SAPC Digest, Vol 1294, Issue 1 
> ()
>    2. Re: Sex Matters component of Alcohol EDU (Gillian Greensite)
>    3. Re: Sex Matters component of Alcohol EDU (Juliette Grimmett)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:34:55 -0400
> From: 
>
> Subject: Re: SAPC Digest, Vol 1294, Issue 1
> To: 
>
> Message-ID: 
> <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>  Dear colleagues;
>
> I, along with Susan Lewis of the National Sexual Violence Resource  
> Center, and Jacki White, from UNC Greensboro - just presented a  
> panel discussion on alcohol and sexual violence at the 25th annual  
> IVAT (International conference on Violence, Abuse and Trauma).? It  
> is groundbreaking stuff - and important to talk about on campuses  
> in terms of risk, causation and policy-making.? I tossed out the  
> question - what's the difference between rape of an intoxicated  
> person and "sex with a buzz"?? The answers and reactions from the  
> audience were extraordinary both in terms of desire to understand  
> the answer and frustration that there is no fair way to draw a line.
>
> I recommend bringing all or some of us to campus to elucidate the  
> issues and foster a fuller appreciation for the role of alcohol in  
> the epidemic of sexual violence, especially on college campuses.
>
> Wendy Murphy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
>
> To: 
>
> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 9:04 am
> Subject: SAPC Digest, Vol 1294, Issue 1
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Send SAPC mailing list submissions to
>     
>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>     https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>     
>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>     
>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of SAPC digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Sex Matters component of Alcohol EDU (Juliette Grimmett)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:59:55 -0400
> From: "Juliette Grimmett" 
> <>
> Subject: Sex Matters component of Alcohol EDU
> To: 
> <>,
>     
> <>,
>     
> <>
> Message-ID: 
> <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hello all -
>
> Have any of you seen this new portion of the alcohol EDU program?   
> I have
> tremendous concerns about the messages it sends.  Some folks on  
> campus are
> considering keeping this section and I am trying to build a multi- 
> faceted
> response as to why it is dangerous and to me sends the opposite  
> messages that we
> at the women's center and our peer educators are teaching.  For  
> example, I
> believe the module is the following: victim-blaming, puts all  
> responsibility to
> stop rape on women, not promoting a culture change or any  
> accountability for
> perpetrators, incrorrectly using defintions of rape and sexual  
> assault, by being
> embedded in alcohol EDU it sends the dangerous message that alcohol  
> causes rape,
> etc.).  This is not to mention my overall concerns of having an  
> online sexual
> assault training, but i was trying to have an open-mind.
>
> If any of you have any thoughts about this (positive or negative) I  
> would really
> love to hear them as soon as possible.  I have attached the link to  
> view it if
> you are interested - it took me about 45 minutes to go through  
> because i was
> taking a lot of notes, but it says it is supposed to take 20-30  
> minutes.  They
> want feedback by Tuesday so any help is greatly appreciated!
>
> To access a DEMO version of Sex Matters:
> 1. Go to: http://college.alcoholedu.com/
> 2. Under New User enter the following Login ID: NB1SA
> 3. Click "Sign Up."
> 4. Once you have created an account, please copy and paste the  
> following link
> into your web browser: http://college.alcoholedu.com/ 
> courseoutline.aspx This
> link will bring you to the course outline.
> 5. From here, you can choose the Sex Matters portion of the  
> AlcoholEdu course.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> SAPC mailing list
>
> https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
>
>
> End of SAPC Digest, Vol 1294, Issue 1
> *************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:41:04 -0700
> From: Gillian Greensite 
> <>
> Subject: Re: Sex Matters component of Alcohol EDU
> To: 
>
> Message-ID: 
> <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Dear Juliette,
>
> How fortunate that you sent your posting right now!. UCSC is going
> full steam ahead to use this on-line program for next year, despite
> the fact that I and my peer educators have in the past two weeks
> delivered 12 dynamic, well-received, 90 minute mandatory
> presentations to new students. We still have two to go. I have not
> been consulted at all about the online program but I can attend the
> viewing next week when the company that markets this online resource
> will be coming to campus to promote it.
>
> I pre-viewed the Sex Matters online program and agree with Juliette's
> summary of the problems with it. I'm against online resources in
> general since the image of a lone male with misogynist attitudes
> sitting in his dorm room yukking it up as he hurls insults at the
> screen, or perhaps has a few like-minded friends over to join him, is
> seriously problematic. Perhaps this explains the curious finding from
> the company that the attitudes of a sizable percentage of students
> ( gender was omitted) actually worsened after taking the program. The
> company explains this by saying that those students probably
> increased their drinking over the same time span and that was the
> cause of the attitude decline. I find that rather implausible. A more
> plausible explanation might be that absent the context of good male
> role models, in a large group setting,  no real learning takes place
> in those at high risk for raping ( thank you Dr. Lisak) and in fact
> there is the distinct possibility that their attitudes harden,
> especially with an online resource that is unskilled in handling male
> defensiveness, something I am proud to claim as a success developed
> step by small step over the past 29 years. And our cmpus is poised to
> throw all that skill out of the window for a quick online fix.
>
> So any and all comments will be helpful. And, that other online
> program N'Formed looks good at first but the "prevention" section is
> SO bad you'd think it was a spoof. Try the three
>
>
> On Oct 8, 2009, at 9:04 AM, 
>
>  wrote:
>
> > Send SAPC mailing list submissions to
> >         
> >
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >         https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >         
> >
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >         
> >
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of SAPC digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Sex Matters component of Alcohol EDU (Juliette Grimmett)
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> > -
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:59:55 -0400
> > From: "Juliette Grimmett" 
> > <>
> > Subject: Sex Matters component of Alcohol EDU
> > To: 
> > <>,
> >         
> > <>,
> >         
> > <>
> > Message-ID: 
> > <>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> > Hello all -
> >
> > Have any of you seen this new portion of the alcohol EDU program?
> > I have tremendous concerns about the messages it sends.  Some folks
> > on campus are considering keeping this section and I am trying to
> > build a multi-faceted response as to why it is dangerous and to me
> > sends the opposite messages that we at the women's center and our
> > peer educators are teaching.  For example, I believe the module is
> > the following: victim-blaming, puts all responsibility to stop rape
> > on women, not promoting a culture change or any accountability for
> > perpetrators, incrorrectly using defintions of rape and sexual
> > assault, by being embedded in alcohol EDU it sends the dangerous
> > message that alcohol causes rape, etc.).  This is not to mention my
> > overall concerns of having an online sexual assault training, but i
> > was trying to have an open-mind.
> >
> > If any of you have any thoughts about this (positive or negative) I
> > would really love to hear them as soon as possible.  I have
> > attached the link to view it if you are interested - it took me
> > about 45 minutes to go through because i was taking a lot of notes,
> > but it says it is supposed to take 20-30 minutes.  They want
> > feedback by Tuesday so any help is greatly appreciated!
> >
> > To access a DEMO version of Sex Matters:
> > 1. Go to: http://college.alcoholedu.com/
> > 2. Under New User enter the following Login ID: NB1SA
> > 3. Click "Sign Up."
> > 4. Once you have created an account, please copy and paste the
> > following link into your web browser: http://college.alcoholedu.com/
> > courseoutline.aspx This link will bring you to the course outline.
> > 5. From here, you can choose the Sex Matters portion of the
> > AlcoholEdu course.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SAPC mailing list
> >
> > https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
> >
> >
> > End of SAPC Digest, Vol 1294, Issue 1
> > *************************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:19:57 -0400
> From: "Juliette Grimmett" 
> <>
> Subject: Re: Sex Matters component of Alcohol EDU
> To: 
> <>,
>  "Gillian Greensite" 
> <>
> Message-ID: 
> <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Dear Gillian - thank you so much for this feedback.  I have  
> received many supportive responses from people on this list.  It  
> seems like these people have been hitting up campuses lately so now  
> is the time to discuss this.  I have a 3 page report on my concerns  
> with it, so if anyone is interested, please let me know and i will  
> email it to you.
>
> Gillian - was the information you are talking about regarding a  
> decrease in learning about a sexual assault module or alcohol?  I  
> believe it for sure...
>
> thanks so much everyone!
> juliette
>
>
> Are you an NCSU student interested in being a Sexual & Relationship  
> Violence Peer Educator?  Join The Movement.  www.ncsu.edu/themovement
>
> Juliette Grimmett, MPH
> Rape Prevention Education Coordinator
> NC State University
> Women's Center
> 3120 Talley Student Center
> Campus BOX 7306
> Raleigh, NC 27695-7306
> Office: (919) 513-3232
> 24 Hour Sexual Violence Hotline: (919)618-RAPE (7273)
> Fax: (919) 515-1066
> email: 
>
>  ( http://www.ncsu.edu/womens_center ;)
> PConsider the environment before printing this email or the  
> attachment.
>
>
> > > > On 10/8/2009 at 1:41 PM, in message  
> > > > <>, Gillian  
> > > > Greensite <> wrote:
> Dear Juliette,
>
> How fortunate that you sent your posting right now!. UCSC is going
> full steam ahead to use this on-line program for next year, despite
> the fact that I and my peer educators have in the past two weeks
> delivered 12 dynamic, well-received, 90 minute mandatory
> presentations to new students. We still have two to go. I have not
> been consulted at all about the online program but I can attend the
> viewing next week when the company that markets this online resource
> will be coming to campus to promote it.
>
> I pre-viewed the Sex Matters online program and agree with Juliette's
> summary of the problems with it. I'm against online resources in
> general since the image of a lone male with misogynist attitudes
> sitting in his dorm room yukking it up as he hurls insults at the
> screen, or perhaps has a few like-minded friends over to join him, is
> seriously problematic. Perhaps this explains the curious finding from
> the company that the attitudes of a sizable percentage of students
> ( gender was omitted) actually worsened after taking the program. The
> company explains this by saying that those students probably
> increased their drinking over the same time span and that was the
> cause of the attitude decline. I find that rather implausible. A more
> plausible explanation might be that absent the context of good male
> role models, in a large group setting,  no real learning takes place
> in those at high risk for raping ( thank you Dr. Lisak) and in fact
> there is the distinct possibility that their attitudes harden,
> especially with an online resource that is unskilled in handling male
> defensiveness, something I am proud to claim as a success developed
> step by small step over the past 29 years. And our cmpus is poised to
> throw all that skill out of the window for a quick online fix.
>
> So any and all comments will be helpful. And, that other online
> program N'Formed looks good at first but the "prevention" section is
> SO bad you'd think it was a spoof. Try the three
>
>
> On Oct 8, 2009, at 9:04 AM, 
>
>  wrote:
>
> > Send SAPC mailing list submissions to
> >
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of SAPC digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Sex Matters component of Alcohol EDU (Juliette Grimmett)
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> > -
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:59:55 -0400
> > From: "Juliette Grimmett" 
> > <>
> > Subject: Sex Matters component of Alcohol EDU
> > To: 
> > <>,
> > <>,
> > <>
> > Message-ID: 
> > <>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> > Hello all -
> >
> > Have any of you seen this new portion of the alcohol EDU program?
> > I have tremendous concerns about the messages it sends.  Some folks
> > on campus are considering keeping this section and I am trying to
> > build a multi-faceted response as to why it is dangerous and to me
> > sends the opposite messages that we at the women's center and our
> > peer educators are teaching.  For example, I believe the module is
> > the following: victim-blaming, puts all responsibility to stop rape
> > on women, not promoting a culture change or any accountability for
> > perpetrators, incrorrectly using defintions of rape and sexual
> > assault, by being embedded in alcohol EDU it sends the dangerous
> > message that alcohol causes rape, etc.).  This is not to mention my
> > overall concerns of having an online sexual assault training, but i
> > was trying to have an open-mind.
> >
> > If any of you have any thoughts about this (positive or negative) I
> > would really love to hear them as soon as possible.  I have
> > attached the link to view it if you are interested - it took me
> > about 45 minutes to go through because i was taking a lot of notes,
> > but it says it is supposed to take 20-30 minutes.  They want
> > feedback by Tuesday so any help is greatly appreciated!
> >
> > To access a DEMO version of Sex Matters:
> > 1. Go to: http://college.alcoholedu.com/
> > 2. Under New User enter the following Login ID: NB1SA
> > 3. Click "Sign Up."
> > 4. Once you have created an account, please copy and paste the
> > following link into your web browser: http://college.alcoholedu.com/
> > courseoutline.aspx This link will bring you to the course outline.
> > 5. From here, you can choose the Sex Matters portion of the
> > AlcoholEdu course.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SAPC mailing list
> >
> > https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
> >
> >
> > End of SAPC Digest, Vol 1294, Issue 1
> > *************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> SAPC mailing list
>
> https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> SAPC mailing list
>
> https://list.mail.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sapc
>
>
> End of SAPC Digest, Vol 1295, Issue 1
> *************************************