Discussion List for campus-based and allied personnel working to end gender-based violence on campus.

["Juliette Grimmett" <>]

Ben (and Martin) -

I do not feel you have anything to apologize for.  I think you found a 
connection there and spoke to it.  I (and obviously MANY others) understood 
what you were doing and did not feel you were minimizing the horror of what 
Sodini did.  I really enjoyed your example, and knowing who you are and what 
you stand for, I never once thought you were missing the boat.

I do believe in listservs and have found them to be so valuable MOST of the 
time.  I must say Martin, that I found your response to Ben to be very 
aggressive, entitled, and nasty.  I am all for you speaking your mind - but 
something that offensively said should in my mind either 1) not be said, or 
2) said privately to Ben.  I found it to look poorly on you for writing 
something like that, which was really a shame because I very much enjoy 
reading your posts. 

I hope that next time, you might consider writing something more respectful, 
and/or that you share your feelings to the person directly rather than blast 
them on a listserv.

Juliette 

Are you an NCSU student interested in being a Sexual & Relationship Violence 
Peer Educator?  Join The Movement.  www.ncsu.edu/themovement 

Juliette Grimmett, MPH
Rape Prevention Education Coordinator
NC State University
Women's Center
3120 Talley Student Center
Campus BOX 7306
Raleigh, NC 27695-7306
Office: (919) 513-3232
24 Hour Sexual Violence Hotline: (919)618-RAPE (7273)
Fax: (919) 515-1066
email: 


P Consider the environment before printing this email or the attachment. 


>>> On 8/12/2009 at 9:53 AM, in message 
>>> <>,
>>>  "Ben Atherton-Zeman" 
>>> <>
>>>  wrote:

  Hi, friends!

Martin, I appreciate your feedback about the column.  Maybe I should have 
stuck to the main points I was trying to make: 1. Sodini's violence was 
supported by a belief system that women are objects, inferior, etc.  2. A 
vast majority of men commit violence on the same continuum as the violence 
Sodini committed.  I could have just left Obama and the cupcakes out of it.

Thanks for your kind words about my principles and practice!  

In case folks missed the column the first time around, it's now on the Web at 
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/opinion/x2117941012/Zemon-The-men-who-kill-women.
  

Until the violence stops, Ben.  

Ben Atherton-Zeman, Maynard, MA USA
Actor, Comedian, Feminist and Husband
Presenting a One-Man Play: "Voices of Men," http://www.voicesofmen.org ;(video 
clips available)
For booking information, please call 978-897-3619

“Black people who speak out about white racism are NOT racists.  White people 
who call black people racists for talking about race are trying to silence us 
so that we stop talking about race…Why do white people continue to remain 
silent in the face of racism?  Your silence, to me, is deafening!”
- Byron Hurt, award-winning documentary filmmaker and anti-sexist activist, 
http://www.bhurt.com ;
Start taking action at http://colorofchange.org/beck/?id=1995-946034
(Congratulations to Byron and Kenya on the birth of your baby girl Maasai!)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: martin dufresne 
To: 

 ; 

 ; 

 
Cc: 

 ; 

 ; 

 
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [PROFEM] George Sodini and Barack Obama


Ben,

I find embarrassing your putting on an equal footing presidentyial cupcakes 
and the Pennsylvania mass murder.
I realize you see this as a 'teachable moment' about what men's behaviour 
could be (as if we doubted that), but it reads to me like the classic 
'gaslighting' strategy of invalidating women's perceptions by highlighting a 
contrary message to a lethal pattern, flowers from the batterer, or the old 
good cop-bad cop, Mutt 'n Jeff technique of softening a target.

Given your excellent principles and practice, I am sure you can do better.

Martin Dufresne

P.S.: A more realistic discussion of Sodini's mass murder and men's 
entitlement to treat women as they wish is online at 
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/body-and-soul/misogynists-rampage

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Ben Atherton-Zeman 
To: 

 ; 

 ; 

 
Cc: 

 ; 

 ; 

 
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 12:52 PM
Subject: [PROFEM] George Sodini and Barack Obama


No Shootings Without Sexism

We may never know why George Sodini killed three women and wounded nine 
others this week.   

George Sodini clearly had anger and contempt for women.  He objectified girls 
and women, seeming to see them only as potential sex partners for him.  In 
his online blog, he called them “hoez,” “hottie” and “very edible.”  He 
lamented that he was lonely and isolated.  He posted a YouTube video about 
trying to date women 10 to 20 years younger than he was.  He wrote about how 
“a man needs a woman for confidence,” and lamented that no woman would date 
him.  

We may never know why George Sodini shot twelve women at the LA Fitness Gym 
outside Pittsburg on August 4th.  But after reading his writings, it comes as 
no surprise to me.  

Also on August 4, Barack Obama celebrated his 48th birthday.  It was also 
veteran White House journalist Helen Thomas’ 89th birthday.  Obama chose to 
celebrate his birthday by bringing cupcakes to Thomas and singing “Happy 
Birthday” to her, along with the rest of the White House press corps. 

We may never know why Barack Obama gave that gift to Helen Thomas.  But after 
reading his writings and hearing him speak, it comes as no surprise to me.  
Barack Obama clearly has respect, kindness and good humor for women.  George 
Sodini clearly had hatred, self-pity and contempt for women. 

Both men were in their late 40s.  Both were surely influenced by how their 
parents raised them, and by their own choices.  Both men took their actions 
based on a set of beliefs built up over their lives.  

To my fellow men I ask: which man do you want to emulate?  

Of course, not all men who have contempt for women end up shooting them.  
Every day, we men call women “hoes” and other, worse names.  We men whistle 
at women who pass us by.  We men see girls and women as objects of desire, as 
objects of ridicule, as objects.  

We men make sexist jokes, and protest when confronted on our sexism.  “Hey, 
it’s just a joke!”

We interrupt women in conversations, in board meetings, in our homes.  We 
value women’s intelligence less than we do their bodies.  We pay attention to 
what they are wearing and their body parts, not to what’s on their minds.  

We pay women less than we pay other men.  We stalk our ex-girlfriends and 
excuse our behavior because we’re still “in love.”  We track our wives’ and 
girlfriends’ movements by texting them – we minimize and justify our behavior 
based on our own jealousy.  

We objectify women through pornography (online and otherwise) and with sexist 
advertising.  Again, when confronted on our consumption of these images, we 
blame the women for “choosing” to participate – the real blame should be on 
us guys for creating such a high demand for these objectified, sexualized 
images.  

We act like victims, and paint women as perpetrators and heartbreakers.  We 
write and sing songs about evil women and their wicked ways.  We speak about 
sexism no longer existing - of women as being the ones in charge, with us 
poor guys as the new, neglected oppressed group.  All the while, we make more 
money, have more political power and physical safety than women.  We ignore 
the facts about violence against women, and mistake our own feelings of 
victimization for actual victimization.  

Every twelve seconds in the United States, we abuse the woman whom we have 
promised to love.  Every two minutes, we rape a woman – usually a woman we 
know, who trusts us.  When confronted on our violence, we blame the victim: 
“she made me do it, you should see how she is at home, I could tell she was 
really into me.” 

Of course, not everyone who tells a sexist joke will shoot women in health 
clubs.  Not everyone who believes women are just sex objects will murder 
women.  We may never know what caused George Sodini to do that.  

But I know one thing.  Without that belief system, George Sodini would never 
have shot those women.  

What kind of man do you want to be?  What kind of man do you want to teach 
your sons to be?  Your guy friends?  

We cannot bring back the lives that George Sodini took: Jody Billingsley, 
Betsy Gannon and an as-yet unnamed third woman.  But we can hold up role 
models like Barack Obama, rather than men who mock and make fun of women.  We 
can interrupt sexist jokes, and not tell them ourselves.  We can listen to 
women – really listen.  We can support women’s leadership.  We can donate to 
domestic violence programs, rape crisis centers, state and national 
anti-violence groups.  

Misogyny and men’s violence against women need fertile soil in which to grow. 
 That fertile soil is sexism.  By respecting women, we can dry up that soil.  
We can hasten the day when this kind of violence never happens again.  

Until the violence stops, Ben.  

Ben Atherton-Zeman, Maynard, MA USA
Actor, Comedian, Feminist and Husband
Presenting a One-Man Play: "Voices of Men," http://www.voicesofmen.org ;(video 
clips available)
For booking information, please call 978-897-3619

“Black people who speak out about white racism are NOT racists.  White people 
who call black people racists for talking about race are trying to silence us 
so that we stop talking about race…Why do white people continue to remain 
silent in the face of racism?  Your silence, to me, is deafening!”
- Byron Hurt, award-winning documentary filmmaker and anti-sexist activist, 
http://www.bhurt.com ;
Start taking action at http://colorofchange.org/beck/?id=1995-946034
(Congratulations to Byron and Kenya on the birth of your baby girl!)

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