Discussion List for campus-based and allied personnel working to end gender-based violence on campus.

["S. Daniel Carter" <>]

The Department also referenced employing a “reasonableness” standard, similar to the one they use in determining whether or not timely warnings were properly issued.

Just because they aren’t expecting a roll call with everybody checked off doesn’t mean the intent still isn’t to saturate as much as possible.

S. Daniel Carter

Director of 32 National Campus Safety Initiative

VTV Family Outreach Foundation

P.O. Box 230024, Centreville, VA  20120

Office: 202-684-6471

http://www.32ncsi.org/

From: Lauren Klein <>
Date: Thursday, September 18, 2014 at 4:37 PM
To: Holly Rider-Milkovich <>
Cc: "S. Daniel Carter" <>, Roberta Gibbons <>, "" <>, "" <>, Brett Sokolow <>
Subject: Re: Campus SaVE training for new student, staff and faculty

Hi Roberta,

It can also be helpful to check in with peer institutions to see what they are doing with this requirement.  If they are doing more, that can be leverage. I agree with what others have mentioned about simply listing something on a website not being a good faith enough of an effort to constitute proactively providing the training.  

My best, 

LB

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Holly Rider-Milkovich <> wrote:

I would agree with Daniel that the institution's interpretation reflects DoE interpretation: this was what DoE reps expressed at the negotiation table and the interpretation that is articulated in the draft reg preamble. 

Where I think that there is more room for interpretation, and for good advocacy is what will be a sufficient "offering?" 

Jim Moore, who heads up the Clery compliance division of DoE, opined at the table that he would be looking for a "robust" offering of the training" when assessing campus compliance on this issue and that simply making a link available likely would not suffice, but it will probably be some trial by review fire as well as (hopefully) additional guidance in the Clery handbook when revised that will make more clear what will constitute an "offering" 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 17, 2014, at 11:45 AM, "S. Daniel Carter" <> wrote:

Roberta,

Your University’s interpretation is likely based on that of the U.S. Department of Education’s. In the June 20th proposed regulations they stated that “while the statute requires institutions to describe the programs focused on prevention and awareness of rape, acquaintance rape, dating violence, domestic violence, sexual assault, and stalking in their annual security reports, it does not require that institutions require every student and employee to take the training.” (Emphasis Added)

Please see page 35441 of the June 20, 2014 Federal Register for the complete statement, which is found towards the bottom of the third column. It is available at http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-06-20/pdf/2014-14384.pdf where this page is 25 of 44. They do further note, however, that “institutions may adopt policies requiring that all students and employees take this training, for example, before completing registration.”

S. Daniel Carter

Director of 32 National Campus Safety Initiative

VTV Family Outreach Foundation

P.O. Box 230024, Centreville, VA  20120

Office: 202-684-6471

http://www.32ncsi.org/

From: Roberta Gibbons <>
Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 at 11:27 AM
To: Brett Sokolow <>
Cc: "" <>, "" <>
Subject: Campus SaVE training for new student, staff and faculty

Greetings,

 

I am shocked that I am writing this email, but my university and the whole system that it is a part of has come to the decision that the training for new faculty, staff and students required by SaVE is a requirement to “offer” or, as it says in the legislation, “provide” the training, but not a requirement that it be completed.  The implication is that there will be link from the university website for anyone one who wants to take the training, but there will not be tracking. 

 

Maybe I’m crazy, but I’ve been arguing that “to provide it” means that it must be completed. Thoughts?

 

Roberta Gibbons

Metropolitan State University

 

From: McLay, Molly Margaret []
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:42 AM
To: Brett Sokolow
Cc: Felty, Wade P.; ;
Subject: Re: TotalSororityMove article

 

I'm going to run this by my student peer educators to get some of their thoughts... but my initial feeling is, if the guy had asked "do you want to do this?", what would have happened? He didn't get her consent. Even though she didn't say no, he never asked her if she wanted to. Consent is the presence of a yes, not the absence of a no. Perhaps she didn't feel violated, and every person's reaction to an event like that differs, and it's okay if she doesn't want to call it rape -- it's her choice and her right. But from the standpoint of our prevention program (and student code) is, if there's not a clear, freely given yes, then it's sexual misconduct. I do think that it's a really interesting piece exploring how hard these concepts are in reality, how complex, and it could be a great teaching tool to use with students to unpack the issue of consent. Just my two cents, but I'll be asking for feedback from my students.

Molly M. McLay, MSW, LSW

Assistant Director

University of Illinois Women's Resources Center

Office of Inclusion and Intercultural Relations

2nd Floor, MC-302

703 S. Wright Street

Champaign, IL 61820

(p) 217-333-3137

(f) 217-244-3167

http://www.go.illinois.edu/wrc

 

On Sep 17, 2014, at 9:07 AM, "Brett Sokolow" <> wrote:

I am apparently old enough now, Wade, to see history repeat itself.  Katie Roiphe wrote a whole book about this, and the Internet has many responsive articles that may help you to generate discussion on this on your campus if you wish.  My take is that the article you posted manages to be less victim-blaming than Roiphe in its tone and more conflicted about the emotions inherent in these situations than Roiphe acknowledged with her “suck it up and deal” approach.  

 

Regards,
Brett A. Sokolow
Brett A. Sokolow, Esq.
Attorney-at-Law

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From: <Felty>, "Wade P." <>
Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 at 9:07 AM
To: "" <>, "" <>
Subject: TotalSororityMove article

 

Colleagues,

 

One of my student peer educators showed this to me and doesn’t know what to make of it or how to respond to the things it talks about. Have you seen this? What would you tell someone?

 

http://totalsororitymove.com/is-it-possible-that-there-is-something-in-between-consensual-sex-and-rape-and-that-it-happens-to-almost-every-girl-out-there/

 

 

Wade

 

Wade Felty

Wade Felty

Office of Residence Life & Housing and Judicial Affairs

Randolph-Macon College

(804)-752-3234 (Office)

(804)-441-4187 (Mobile)

 

--

Lauren (LB) Klein, MSW

Gender-Based Violence Prevention Advocate & Consultant

Candidate, Master of Public Administration, Program on Gender-Based Violence; University of Colorado-Denver School of Public Affairs

314.578.8584