Discussion List for campus-based and allied personnel working to end gender-based violence on campus.

We also get this question quite a bit in our "Understanding Consent" sessions with students on campus. Im sure many of you have used this but I thought I would share it for the folks who may be new to this work. 

We use the analogy of a drunk driver... if a person is driving drunk and hits a pedestrian, we would never ask whether the pedestrian was drunk too. The victim's level of intoxication would be irrelevant. And, even if the pedestrian WAS also drunk, it wouldnt minimize the responsibility placed on the drunk driver for breaking the law.

I realize this analogy isnt a perfect fix, but we find that using an analogy outside of the context of sexual violence helps students wrap their mind around perpetrator responsibility. Again, we mainly use this in large group education sessions when the question about victim intoxication has the potential to derail the session. 

Just thought I'd share...

 

 

Monica Rivera

Assistant Director for Prevention and Education Programs

& Victim Advocate

Women and Gender Advocacy Center

Colorado State University

112 Student Services

970-491-6384

www.wgac.colostate.edu

"The truth is on the side of the oppressed" -MX

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From: Megan Elizabeth Selheim <>
To: Mahri Irvine <>; "'Crocker, Patricia King Williams - crockepk'" <>; "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: intoxication and intent

I come across this far more in public educational settings than with clients. Usually, when I encounter this question/debate with students, it’s along the vein of “… but the victim is also responsible, right?” even if that’s not what’s being said. In those cases, I use David Lisak’s (2002) and Stephanie McWhorter’s (2009) research to redirect the conversation, and point out that while yes, on very rare occasions that may be the situation, the overwhelming number of sexual assaults are committed intentionally and with full knowledge of the perpetrator, and alcohol is a tool used to incapacitate the victim.

 

This almost always gets us back on track, and blows a couple minds in the process. I don’t think this would work in a one-on-one client setting, but like I said, it hasn’t really come up for me in client conversations so far.

 

--

Megan Selheim

STOP Violence Program Coordinator

Dean of Students Office

Dept. 3135, 1000 E. University Ave., Laramie WY 82071-2000

118 Knight Hall

307-766-3296

www.uwyo.edu/stop

 

 

From: Mahri Irvine [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:25 PM
To: 'Crocker, Patricia King Williams - crockepk';
Subject: RE: intoxication and intent

 

Hi Everyone,

 

I would also be really interested in your perspectives on this, because this is a (hypothetical) scenario that often comes up when I’m talking to people about sexual violence and I do not feel I am educated enough about this particular issue to respond (in terms of statistics, etc). I have heard that in situations when both victims and perps were drinking/using drugs, the perpetrators  tended to use fewer drugs,  plying their victims with alcohol/drugs while they consumed smaller amounts so that they were still in control. But I don’t actually have any articles/research to back up this statement – it’s just something I have heard.

 

So I really appreciate Patricia’s question about this!

 

Sincerely,

Mahri

 

Mahri Irvine

PhD Candidate ("Rape Culture and the Legal System: Women’s Pathways to Prison in Washington, D.C.")

American University Department of Anthropology

www.mahri-irvine.com 

 

From: Crocker, Patricia King Williams - crockepk []
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 4:42 PM
To:
Subject: intoxication and intent

 

Hi everyone,

 

Forgive me for asking what has likely been discussed before, but I’m new to the listserv…

 

As I’m sure many of you have also found, many students I see as clients in our counseling center are struggling to come to terms with sexual experiences they have had where both they and their partners were intoxicated.  The questions I always feel stumped by when working with these clients relate to consent and intent.  Specifically, if both parties are intoxicated, is either considered capable of giving or getting consent?  And secondly, does someone have to intentionally take advantage of a person’s incapacitation in order for the act to be considered sexual assault?  In less formal language, can someone ‘accidentally’ perpetrate sexual assault if they engage in sexual activity without consent but also without malicious intent?

 

Your thoughts are much appreciated as well as any relevant resources that address this unfortunate scenario.

 

Patricia K. W. Crocker, Ph.D.

Staff Psychologist & Coordinator of Sexual Trauma Empowerment Program

James Madison University

Counseling and Student Development Center

Varner House

800 South Main Street, MSC 0801

Harrisonburg, VA  22807

Phone: (540) 568-6552

Fax: (540) 568-8096

 

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